putin charlie rose
© Presidential Press and Information Office
Dagen før sin meget ventede tale til FNs generalforsamling mandag den 28 september, sendte TV stationen CBS Charlie Roses interview med den russiske præsident Vladimir Putin for dets programs, 60 minutes', sæsonpremiere. Forståeligt nok var interviewet klippet og redigeret for at passe ind i programmets 20 minutters sekvenser. Men nu hvor den fulde transskription er blevet gjort tilgængeligt på Kremlet webside, er det fascinerende at se, det der blev skåret fra. Vi inkluderer nedenfor den fulde transskription, med kommentarer som identifiserer hvilke dele der ikke blev inkluderet i den endelige udsendelse, eller som særlige online klip.

For enkle sætninger og hele udvekslinger er nogle af udelukkelserne bemærkelsesværdige. For eksempel blev praktiske taget hele Putins kommentar om Minsk aftalerne ikke sendt. Heller ikke Putins skarpe kommentarer om Libyen og Syrien, hans observation at USAs handlinger i disse lande var en åbenlys overtrædelse af international ret, og hans udsagn om at "nogen ønsker at bruge enten visse ISIS enheder eller ISIS i almindelighed til at omstyrte al-Assad og kun derefter tænke over, hvordan man skal komme af med ISIS." Andre udvekslinger, så som Putins syn på sanktioner og homoseksuelles rettigheder, blev sendt online, men ikke i det endelige program.

Man kan se, hvad CBS valgte at sende på deres hjemmeside, og læse de relevante transskriptioner af deres oversættelse, her.

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CHARLIE ROSE: Jeg vil gerne takke Dem for at invitere os til Deres hjem på det, som jeg vil beskrive som en pragtfuld russisk søndag eftermiddag, i det som I kalder bab'e leto.


Kommentar: "bab'e leto" er i den engelske oversættelse "Old Wives sommer" og betyder omtrent "gamle kvinders sommer" Den falder i Rusland i to perioder, "den unge" fra 28. august til den 11. september og "den gamle" fra den 14. til den 24 september.


Vi vil gennemføre vores interview, det vil bliv sendt søndag, og næste dag skal De skal holde en tale i FN, og den afventes med spænding. Det er første gang i mange år, De taler i FN. Hvad vil De sige til FN, til Amerika og hele verden?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Eftersom dette interview bliver sendt før min tale, finder jeg ikke, at det vil være formålstjenligt at udlægge i detaljer, hvad jeg agter at sige. Men hvis jeg skal sige det i store træk, så vil jeg naturligvis genkalde nogel kendsgerninger fra FNs historie. Jeg kan allerede nu minde om, at beslutningen om at oprette FN blev vedtaget ved Jaltakonferencen. Det var i Sovjetunionen at denne beslutning fandt sted. Sovjetunionen, og Rusland som Sovjetunionens efterfølger, er medstifter af FN og er et permanent medlem af Sikkerhedsrådet.

Selvfølgelig er jeg nødt til at sige noget om dagen i dag, om hvordan den internationale situations udvikling, om den kendsgerning at FN er den eneste universelle internationale organisation, der er kaldet til at støtte freden i hele verden. Og i den forstand er der i dag intet alternativ til FN. Det er ligeledes klart, at FN må tilpasse sig til en verden, der hele tiden ændrer sig, og vi diskuterer hele tiden: hvordan FN skal udvikle sig, i hvilket tempo, og hvad er det, der kvalitativt bør ændres. Det siger sig selv, at jeg må, eller snarere bør, bruge denne internationale platform til at give det russiske syn på nutidens internationale relationer i dag, såvel som på denne organisations og verdenssamfundets fremtid.
CHARLIE ROSE: Vi forventer, at De vil tale om truslen fra Islamisk Stat, og om den hermed forbundne russiske tilstedeværelse i Syrien. Hvad er Jeres mål med tilstedeværelsen i Syrien, og hvordan forholder dette sig til kampen mod IS?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Jeg er temmelig sikker på, at praktisk alle på FNs talerstol vil tale om den kamp, om nødvendigheden af at bekæmpe terrorisme; og jeg kan heller ikke komme uden om dette emne. Det er fuldt forståeligt, for det er en alvorlig trussel for os alle; det er en udfordring for os alle. I dag udgør terrorismen en trussel for rigtig mange stater i verden. En stor mængde mennesker, hundrede tusinder, ja millioner af mennesker lider under dens kriminelle aktiviteter. Og vi står alle over for den opgave at forene vores indsats i kampen mod dette fælles onde.

Hvad angår, som De sagde,vor tilstedeværelse i Syrien så kommer den i dag til udtryk i form af våbenleverancer til den syriske regering, oplæring af personel, samt humanitær hjælp til det syriske folk. Vi handler baseret på fra FN-pagten, altså de grundlæggende principper i den moderne folkeret, ifølge hvilken denne eller hin form for hjælp, herunder også militær hjælp, udelukkende kan og må ydes til den legitime regering i dette eller hint land, med dens samtykke eller på dens anmodning, eller på grundlag af en beslutning i FNs Sikkerhedsråd. I dette særlige tilfælde handler vi på baggrund af en anmodning fra den syriske regering om at yde militær-teknisk hjælp, hvad vi så gør inden for rammerne af absolut legale internationale kontrakter.
CHARLIE ROSE: Udenrigsminister John Kerry har sagt, at de Forenede Stater byder Deres støtte til kampen mod IS velkommen. Andre har bidt mærke i den kendsgerning, at dette er kampfly og MANPADS, og at de anvendes mod den almindelig hær, og ikke mod ekstremister.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Der er der kun én almindelig legitim hær. Og det er den syriske Præsident Assads hær. Han står over for det, som nogle af vore internationale partnere fortolker som en opposition. Men i realiteten kæmper Assads hær mod terrororganisationer. De burde selv, bedre end jeg, være bekendt med de høringer, der har fundet sted i USA's Senat, hvor, hvis jeg ikke tager fejl, militæret og talsmænd fra Pentagon over for senatorerne gjorde rede for, hvad USA har gjort for at uddanne oppositionskræfternes militærstyrke. Oprindeligt var målet at uddanne fem-seks tusind militser, og derpå 12 tusind mere. Det viser sig, at blot 60 af disse militser blev ordentlig uddannet, og at det blot er 4 eller 5 mand, der kæmper med våben i hånd, mens de resterende af dem er deserteret med amerikanske våben for at gå over til IS. Det er for det første punkt.

For det andet er det efter min mening ikke i overensstemmelse med principperne i folkeretten og med FN-pagten at yde støtte til ikke legitime strukturer. Vi har derimode alene givet støtte til helt legitime regeringsstrukturer. Og på det grundlag foreslår vi landene i regionen at samarbejde; vi forsøger at opbygge en slags koordineringsstruktur. Herom har jeg personligt informeret Tyrkiets præsident, Jordans konge så vel som Saudi-Arabien. Vi har også informeret USA herom og Hr. Kerry har haft en indgående samtale om dette med vor udenrigsminister Sergei Lavrov. Vore militærfolk har også kontakter og drøfter dette emne. Det vil glæde os, hvis vi finder en fælles platform for fælles indsats mod terroristerne.


Kommentar: Intet af det ovennævnte kom med i den endelige CBS udsendelse. Oversættelsen af interviewet indtil nu, er syntese af egen oversættelse og en artikel opsat af dk.sputniknew.com som bragte dele af interviewet i to artikler.


CHARLIE ROSE: Er De klar til at gå sammen med De Forenede Stater mod ISIS og er det derfor I er i Syrien? Andre tror, det måske er en del af Jeres mål, at prøver at redde Præsident al-Assads administration, fordi de har mistet landområder og krigen ikke er gået godt for dem, og I er der for at redde dem.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Det er rigtigt, sådan er det. Vi giver, som jeg har sagt to gange i vores interview og kan gentage igen, vi giver støtte til lovlige Syriske autoriteter. Hvad mere er: jeg er dybt overbevist om, at ved at agere i en anden retning, i retning af nedbrydning af de legitime magtstrukturer, vil vi kunne skabe en situation, som den vi i dag ser i andre lande i regionen, eller i andre regioner i verden, for eksempel i Libyen, hvor alle statsinstitutioner er fuldstændigt disintegreret

Desværre, er vi vidne til en lignende situation i Irak. Der er ingen anden vej til at løse den syriske konflikt end at styrke den eksisterende legitime regeringsstruktur, støtte dem i deres kamp mor terrorisme og, selvfølgelig, på samme tid opfordrer dem til at begynde en positiv dialog med den "sunde" del af oppositionen og igangsætte politiske transformationer.
CHARLIE ROSE: Som De ved, ønsker nogle af koalitionspartnerne, at Assad skal opgive magten; og først derefter vil de være rede til at støtte regeringen.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Jeg vil anbefale Dem at sende dette ønske, ikke til al-Assad selv, men snarere til det syriske folk. Det er kun det syriske folk, som lever i Syrien, der har ret til at afgøre, hvem der skal styre deres land, hvordan og efter hvilke principper, og en hvilken som helst form for eksterne råd af den slags ville være fuldstændig upassende, skadeligt og mod international ret.


Kommentar: Den sidste sætning i fede røde typer var klippet i CBS' version.


CHARLIE ROSE: Vi har allerede drøftet det tidligere, men mener De, at Præsident al-Assad, som I støtter... Støtter I, hvad han gør i Syrien, og hvad der sker med disse syrere, med disse millioner af flygtninge, med de hundrede tusinder af mennesker, som er blevet dræbt og mange - af hans egne styrker?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Og mener De at dem, der støtter den væbnede opposition, og hovedsageligt terrororganisationer, blot for at vælte Assad uden at tænke på hvad der venter landet efter en fuldstændig ødelæggelse af statsinstitutionerne gør det rigtige? Vi har allerede set det, jeg har allerede nævnt Libyen.Det er ikke så længe siden. De Forenede Stater har aktivt bidraget til at ødelægge disse statsinstitutioner. Hvorvidt de var gode eller dårlige er et andet spørgsmål. Men det blev ødelagt og de Forenede Stater led alvorlige tab inklusiv deres ambassadørs død. Forstår I, hvad det leder hen imod? Det er præcist derfor, vi giver støtte til lovlige regeringsstrukturer, men - og det vil jeg gerne igen understrege - vi gør det i håb om at Syrien vil igangsætte politiske transformationer nødvendige for det syriske folk.


Kommentar: CBS klippede også diskussionen af Libyen fra.


Gang efter gang, med en vedholdenhed værdig for en bedre sag, taler I om den syriske hærs kamp mod sit eget folk. Men tag et blik på de, som kontrollere 60% af Syrien territorium. Hvor er den civiliserede opposition? 60 % af Syrien kontrolleres af enten Islamisk Stat (IS), Jabhat al-Nusra eller andre terroristorganisationer, organisationer som er blevet anerkendt som terroristorganisationer af de Forenede Stater så vel som af andre lande og af FN. Det er dem og ingen andre, som har kontrollen med 60 % af Syriens territorium.
CHARLIE ROSE: De er bekymret for hvad der vil ske efter al-Assad. De er bekymret over anarki, De ser på truslen fra IS. Er de forskellige? Er de unikke som en terroristorganisation.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Det er blevt enestående, fordi det udvikler sig globalt. De har sat sig et mål at etablere et kalifat på et territorium der strækker sig fra Portugal til Pakistan. De har allerede gjort krav på hellige islamiske steder som Mekka og Medina. Deres handlinger og deres aktiviteter rækker langt ud over grænserne på det område, der er under deres kontrol.

Hvad angår flygtninge så er Syrien ikke deres eneste oprindelsesland. Hvem flygter fra Libyen? Hvem flygter fra Afghanistan og Irak? Kommer flygtningene kun fra Syrien? Og hvorfor tænker I, at Syriske flygtninge kun flygter som et resultat af Præsident al-Assads handlinger for at beskytte sit land? Hvorfor tænker I ikke, at flytningen flygter fra terroristernes grusomheder, fra IS, som halshugger folk, brænder dem levende, drukner dem levende og ødelægger kulturelle monumenter? Folk flygter også fra dem; de flygter hovedsageligt fra dem - og fra krigen, det er klart. Men der ville ikke være nogen krig, hvis disse terroristgrupper ikke blev støttet med våben og penge udefra. Det forekommer mig at nogen ønsker at bruge enten visse IS enheder eller IS enheder for at styrte al-Assad og kun derefter tænke på, hvordan man skal komme af med IS. Denne arbejde er vanskeligt, efter min mening praktisk taget umuligt.
CHARLIE ROSE: Frygter I, at de kommer til Rusland? Frygter I, at hvis det ikke stopper nu, så kan det være, de kommer til Rusland fra Europa, eller endog til de Forenede Stater, og at det er derfor, I må træde til, fordi ingen andre gør det, der er nødvendigt for at lede indsatsen mod IS?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Helt sikkert, få aktører tager seriøse og effektive foranstaltninger. Vi lærte om effektiviteten af vores amerikanske partneres indsats under Pentagons rapport til det amerikanske senat. For at sige det som det er, så er deres effektivitet lav. De ved, jeg vil ikke være ironisk her eller pege på nogen. Vi foreslår samarbejde; vi foreslår at samle anstrengelserne.

Er vi bange eller ikke? Vi har intet at være bange for. Vi er i vores land, vi har styr på situationen. Men vi har været igennem en meget vanskelig vej gennem bekæmpelsen af terrorisme, international terrorisme i det Nordlige Kaukasus. Det er det første punkt.

Det andet punkt er, at vi ved helt sikkert, at der i dag er mindst 2,000 - og måske endog mere end 2000 - militantet i Syrien som er fra Rusland eller de tidligere Sovjettiske republikker og, selvfølgelig, er der truslen om deres tilbagevenden til Rusland. Og det er derfor, det er bedre at hjælpe al-Assad med at skaffe dem væk der, end at vente indtil de kommer tilbage her.


Kommentar: Det ovenfor anførte spørgsmål og svar blev, forudsigeligt, skåret fra i deres helhed. Det samme med de tre følgende spørgsmål og svar. Men inden vi går videre, kan det anføres at der er en video, hvori Vladimir Putin ved en pressekonference fortæller journalisterne om IS: Putin Tells Everyone Exactly Who Created ISIS Til sammenligning er der her et par amerikanske perspektiver, der peger i samme retning: General Wesley Clark: Our friends and allies created ISIS eller Biden: Turks, Saudis, UAE funded and armed Al Nusra and Al Qaeda

Mens Putin ovenfor nævnte tallet af personer fra de tidligere sovjet republikker til 2000, anslog ikke Russisk eksperter det til noget højere, fx 5000, hvilket stemmer mere i overensstemmelse med de sidste meldinger fra midten af oktober 2015: Putin: 7,000 people from ex-Soviet republics estimated to fight alongside ISIS


CHARLIE ROSE: Yes, but you say that you stepped in because you did not think that the job was being done well and you listen to what is going on in the American Senate, you heard the results and you said that Russia must act.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Vi handler allerede og vi har altid handlet på denne måde. Vi har samarbejdet med mange lande og vi fortsætter med at samarbejde, inklusiv med de Forenede Stater. Vi sender gennem særlige kanaler konstant den information til vores kolleger som er nødvendig for de amerikanske special styrker for at yde vores bidrag til at sikre sikkerhed, herunder sikkerheden af amerikanske borgere både i USA og udenfor. Men jeg mener at dette niveau af koordinering er utilstrækkeligt i dag, vi har brug for at arbejde mere tæt med hinanden.
CHARLIE ROSE: Efter Ders mening, hvilken strategi anbefaler De, andet end at støtte al-Assads regime?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Jeg har allerede sagt, at vi burde hjælpe Præsident al-Assads hær. Og de er slet ingen andre som kæmper mod ISIS på landjorden, undtagen Præsident al-Assads hær. Så jeg ønsker, at de og deres seere endelig bliver klar over, at der ikke er nogen undtagen al-Assads hær der kæmper mod ISIS eller andre terrorist organisationer i Syrien, ingen andre bekæmper dem på det syriske territorium. Mindre luftangreb, inklusiv de der udføres af de Forenede Staters fly, løser ikke problemet i det væsentlige, faktisk løser de det slet ikke. Arbejdet bør udføres på stedet efter disse angrebm og det bør alt sammen koordineres nøje. Vi har behov for at vide hvilke angreb der er nødvendige, hvor vi behøver at ramme og hvem der vil gå frem på jorden efter disse angreb. I Syrien er der ingen anden magt som kan gøre det undtagen al-Assads hær.
CHARLIE ROSE: Ville Rusland indsætte kamptropper i Syrien hvis det er nødvendigt for at besejre IS?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Rusland vil ikke deltage i nogen som helst troppeoperationer på Syriens eller andre staters territorium. Det er i hvert fald ikke noget, vi planlægger nu. Men vi tænker over, hvordan vi kan intensivere vores arbejde med Præsident al-Assad og med vore partnere i andre lande.
CHARLIE ROSE: Hvad betyder det?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Det betyder at vores væbnede styrker ikke vil tage del i fjentligheder direkte og de vil ikke kæmpe. Vi vil støtte al-Assad...
CHARLIE ROSE: Mener de luftangreb?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Jeg mener krig, kampoperationer på territoriet, infanteri og motoriserede enheder.
CHARLIE ROSE: Hvad ellers vil være påkrævet? Vi kommer tilbage til problemet, at mange mennesker mener al-Assad hjælper IS, at hans forfærdelige holdning til det syriske folk og brugen af klyngebomber og andre handlinger hjælper IS, og at hvis han bliver fjernet, så vil overgangsperioden være bedre på et eller andet tidspunkt i forhold til målet at bekæmpe IS.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I efterretningssprog; jeg kan sige at en sådan vurdering er en grov handling af al-Assads fjender. Det er en anti-Syrisk propaganda, der er intet til fælles mellem al-Assad og ISIS, de kæmper mod hinanden. Og jeg gentager én gang til at Præsident al-Assad og hans hær er de eneste styrker der faktisk bekæmper ISIS.


Kommentar: Den anden del af svaret ovenfor blev klippet. (efter "anti-Syrien pien propaganda"). De følgende fire udvekslinger blev også klippet.

Kommentar: Vi undskylder, at hovedparten af resten af artiklen er på engelsk, dog er alle kommentarerne oversat, så man let kan danne sig et overblik over, hvad og hvordan der blev klippet. Ellers vil resten af interviewet blive oversat som tiden tillader, men vores lille frivillige stab har begrænsede ressourcer. Hvis du har lyst til at oversætte fra engelsk, tysk eller fransk, så skriv blot til sott_da@sott.net


CHARLIE ROSE: But there were reports earlier saying that you were getting ready to provide support to them, and that what you wanted to see was a negotiated political transition.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: We think that the issues of a political nature should be solved in any country, including in Syria, primarily by its people - in this case by the Syrian people themselves. But we are ready to provide assistance both to the Syrian authorities and the healthy opposition for them to find some points of contact and agree on the political future of their country. It is for this purpose that we have organised a series of meetings between the representatives of the opposition and al-Assad's government in Moscow. We took part in the Geneva Conference on this issue. We are ready to further act in this direction, urging sides, the official authorities and the opposition leaders, to agree with each other exclusively through peaceful means.
CHARLIE ROSE: The Washington Post wrote today: "Into the vacuum of American leadership has stepped Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has dispatched troops and equipment to Syria in an effort to force the world to accept his solution to the war, which is the creation of a new coalition to fight the Islamic State that includes the Assad government". It is interesting that they say you have stepped into a certain vacuum of American leadership. This is what The Washington Post writes.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: We are not stepping into the vacuum of American leadership, we are trying to prevent the creation of a power vacuum in Syria in general because as soon as the government agencies in a state, in a country, are destroyed, a power vacuum sets in, and that vacuum is quickly filled with terrorists. This was the case in Libya and Iraq; this was the case in some other countries. The same is underway in Somalia, the same happened in Afghanistan. Challenging American leadership is not at stake.


Kommentar: Ikke overraskende at det ovennævnte blev klippet.


CHARLIE ROSE: Well, a vacuum is an issue. It seems that you are a little irritated by one point: you are talking about a strong centralised government being Russia's DNA and you have a huge fear that there is no strong government in Syria and in other countries, that there is some sort of anarchy.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I am not saying that there is no strong government there. I mean that if there was no government at all, there would be anarchy and a vacuum, and the vacuum and the anarchy would soon evolve into terrorism.

For instance, in Iraq, there was a famous person, Saddam Hussein, who was either good or bad. It was at a certain stage (you might have forgotten, have you?) that the United States actively collaborated with Saddam when he was at war with Iran: weapons were supplied, diplomatic and political support was provided, and so on. Then the US fell out with him for some reason and decided to do away with him. But when Saddam Hussein was eliminated, the Iraqi statehood and thousands of people from the former Baath party were also eliminated. Thousands of Iraqi servicemen, who were part of the state's Sunni elite, found themselves thrown out into the street. No one gave a thought about them, and today they end up in the ISIS army. That is what we stand against.

We are not against a country exercising leadership of any kind anywhere, we are against thoughtless actions that lead to such negative situations that are difficult to rectify.
CHARLIE ROSE: As you know, Iran's representative General Soleimani has recently visited Moscow. What role will he as well as the Kurdish forces play in Syria? And what needs to be done in this respect?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: As I have already said, I think that all countries of the region should join their efforts in the fight against a common threat - terrorism in general and ISIS in particular. It concerns Iran as well, it concerns Saudi Arabia (although the two countries do not get along very well, ISIS threatens both of them), it concerns Jordan, it concerns Turkey (in spite of certain problems regarding the Kurdish issue), and, in my opinion, everybody is interested in resolving the situation. Our task is to join these efforts to fight against a common enemy.
CHARLIE ROSE: Denne formulering er meget bred, blandt andet kan den betyde nye anstrengelser fra Ruslands side for at påtage sig en lederrolle i Mellemøsten, og det kan betyde at det repræsentere en ny strategi. Er det en ny strategi?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Nej vi har allerede nævnt hvorfor we i øget omfang støtter al-Assads regering og tænker over udsigterne i regionens situation.

Jeg har allerede sagt det, du spurgte selv om det, og jeg svarede. Der er mere en 2000 militante i Syrien fra det tidligere Sovjetunionen. Så i stedet for at vente på at de vender hjem, søger vi at hjælpe al-Assad bekæmpe dem der, i Syrien. Det er den væsentligste tilskyndelse, der tvinger os til at hjælpe Præsiden al-Assad.

Helt generelt ønsker vi, selvfølgelig, ikke at situationen i regionen somaliaseres, vi ønsker ikke nogen nye Somalia lignende lande der, fordi det er alt sammen tæt på vores grænser; vi ønsker at udvikle normale relationer med disse lande. Vi har traditionelt, og jeg vil understrege det, traditionelt været på meget venskablig fod med Mellemøsten. Vi forventer det forbliver på denne måde i fremtiden.


Kommentar: Den anden del af dette svar var klippet.


CHARLIE ROSE: You are proud of Russia and it means that you want Russia to play a more significant role in the world. This is just one of the examples.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: This is not an end in itself. I am proud of Russia and I am sure that the vast majority of Russian citizens have great love and respect for their Motherland. We have much to be proud of: Russian culture and Russian history. We have every reason to believe in the future of our country. But we have no obsession that Russia must be a superpower in the international arena. The only thing we do is protect our vital interests.


Kommentar: Teksten ovenfor med fede typer blev klippet. Det samme de det næste svar.


CHARLIE ROSE: Men I er en større magt fordi I besidder atomvåben. I er en magt man må tage højde for.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Det håber jeg da (latter), hvad er de våben ellers til for? Vi går ud fra den antagelse, at atomvåben og andre våben er midler til at beskytte vores suverænitet og legitime interesser, ikke midler til at opføre sig aggressivt eller til at opfylde nogle ikkeeksisterende imperiske ambitioner.


Kommentar: De følgende 6 spørgsmål og svar (indtil spørgsmålet om Putins tanker om Obama) blev ikke inkluderet i den endelige version.


CHARLIE ROSE: When in New York, will you request a meeting with President Obama?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Meetings of this kind are arranged in advance. I know that during such events every second, let alone minutes, of President Obama's day are scheduled, there are many delegations from all over the world, so...
CHARLIE ROSE: You think he will not have a spare minute for the President of Russia?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Well, it is up to him. We are always open for contacts of any kind: at the highest level, at the level of ministries and agencies, at the level of special services, if necessary. But I would be happy if President Obama finds a few minutes for a meeting and then, of course, I would appreciate such a meeting. If for some reason it would not be possible for him, never mind, we will have an opportunity to talk at the G20, or at other events.
CHARLIE ROSE: You know, if you'd like to see the President, you can say: "I have a plan for Syria, let's work together. Let's see what we can do. Not only let's work together on Syria, let's see what we can do on other things."
VLADIMIR PUTIN: You know, the thing is that these are difficult issues; they can be finalised only at the top level between the presidents, but before that preparations are needed with preliminary consultations between foreign ministers, defence ministries, and special services. This means a lot of work and if this work is ready to be completed, then it makes sense to meet and complete it. If our colleagues have not approached the final stage, President Obama and I can meet, shake hands and discuss current issues, we - and I personally - are always ready for such contacts.
CHARLIE ROSE: But we are talking about leadership and if you are going there to make a big speech you want the President of the United States to fully be on board as much as he can. Once you pick up the phone and call him and say... Same as you did after our conversation in St Petersburg, you called the President. You said, "Let's make sure we meet and discuss some issues. The issues that are too critical and the two of us can do better than one of us."
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Yes, I have done so, I have called President Obama, and President Obama called me on various issues. This is part of our regular contacts, there is nothing unusual or extraordinary about it. Let me repeat once again: any personal meetings are usually prepared by our staff. I tell you for the third time that we are ready, but it is not just for us to decide. If the Americans want to meet, we will meet.
CHARLIE ROSE: Your need to prepare is none because you deal with these issues every day. You need no preparation to see the President of the United States, nor does he. This is a diplomatic nicety you are suggesting. But I hear you; you are prepared to meet him.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: For how long have you been a journalist?
CHARLIE ROSE: For more years than I want to remember.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: It is difficult for me to advise you on what you are ready or not ready for. Why do you think that you can advise me on what I am ready or not ready for, as this is not my first term as President? But this is not the most important thing. What is most important is that Russia - the President of Russia, its Government and all my colleagues - we are ready for these contacts at the highest level, at the level of governments, ministries, agencies. We are ready to go as far as our American partners. Incidentally, the UN platform was created precisely for this, to seek compromise, to communicate with one another. So it will definitely be nice if we make use of this platform.
CHARLIE ROSE: What do you think of President Obama? What is your evaluation of him?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I do not think I am entitled to assess the President of the United States. This is up to the American people. We have a good personal relationship with President Obama, our relations are quite frank and business-like. And this is quite enough to do our job.


Kommentar: Teksten med fede typer ovenfor og i de følgende tre svar blev klippet.


CHARLIE ROSE: Do you think his activities in foreign affairs reflect a weakness?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Why? I do not think so at all. The point is that in any country, including the United States, maybe in the United States even more often than in any other country, foreign policy is used for internal political struggle. An election campaign will soon start in the United States. They always play either Russian card or any other, political opponents bring accusations against the current head of state, and here there are a lot of lines of attack, including accusations of incompetence, weakness, of anything else. I do not think so, and I will not meddle in America's internal political squabbles.
CHARLIE ROSE: Let me ask you this question: Do you think he listens to you?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I think that we all listen to each other when it does not contradict our own ideas of what we should and should not do. But, in any case, there is a dialogue and we hear each other.
CHARLIE ROSE: You said Russia is not a superpower. Do you think he considers Russia an equal? Considers you an equal? Which is the way you want to be treated?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: (Laughing) Ask him, he is your President! How can I know what he thinks? I repeat we have peer-to-peer interpersonal relationships, we respect each other in any case and we have business contacts at quite a good working level. And what do the American President, the French President, the German Chancellor, the Japanese Prime Minister or the Chinese Premier of the State Council or the Chinese President think, how do I know? We judge not by what seems to us, but by what people do.
CHARLIE ROSE: Selvfølgelig. De holder af Deres arbejde. De kan lide at repræsentere Rusland; og jeg ved at De har været efterretningsofficer. Efterretningsofficerer ved hvordan de læser andre mennesker; det er en del af arbejdet, rigtigt?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Det plejede at være mit arbejde. Nu har jeg et andet arbejde og allerede i et godt stykke tid.
CHARLIE ROSE: Nogen i Rusland har fortalt mig, "Der ikke findes KGB-medarbejdere, der er forhenværende. Én gang KGB mand, altid KGB mand."
VLADIMIR PUTIN: De ved, ethvert stadie i vores liv, har en indvirkning på os. Uanset hvad vi gør, al den viden, den erfaring, de forbliver hos os, vi bærer dem videre, bruger dem på den ene eller anden måde. I den forstand, ja, de har ret.
CHARLIE ROSE: Once, somebody from the CIA told me that the training you have is important, that you learn to be liked as well. Because you have to charm people, you have to seduce them.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Well, if the CIA told you so, then it must be true. They are experts on that. (Laughing)


Kommentar: De følgende fire spørgsmål og svar blev klippet.


CHARLIE ROSE: Think out loud for me though, because this is important. How can the United States and Russia cooperate in the interest of a better world? Think out loud.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: We think about it all the time. One of our objectives today is very important for many people, for millions of people on our planet - it is joining efforts in the fight against terrorism and other similar challenges: countering drug-trafficking and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, fighting famine, preserving the environment and biodiversity, taking efforts to make the world more predictable, more stable. And, finally, Russia...
CHARLIE ROSE: Stable where?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Everywhere, in all parts of the world. You mentioned yourself that Russia and the United States are the biggest nuclear powers, this leaves us with an extra special responsibility. By the way, we manage to deal with it and work together in certain fields, particularly in resolving the issue of the Iranian nuclear programme. We worked together and we achieved positive results, on the whole.
CHARLIE ROSE: How did it work? President Obama has often thanked you for the assistance that you gave in reaching the final accord. What did you do? What did your negotiators contribute, your Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: The thing is, however strange it may seem, that the interests of the United States and of the Russian Federation do coincide sometimes. And in this case - I just told you that we have a special responsibility for the non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction - our interests certainly coincide. That is why, together with the United States, we worked hard and consistently on resolving this problem. Russia was guided not only by these reasons but also by the fact that Iran is our neighbour, our traditional partner, and we wanted to bring the situation back on track. We believed that this settlement will help to improve the security situation in the Middle East. In this respect, our assessments of what happened on Iran's nuclear programme almost fully coincide with the assessments of our American colleagues.
CHARLIE ROSE: As you know, the Republicans are likely to win the elections. As for Iran's nuclear deal, there is a big debate. What would you tell them?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I have just said it. If you need me to repeat it, I can. I am confident that the agreement we have achieved meets the interests of international security, strengthens the situation in the region, puts serious obstacles to the proliferation of nuclear weapons because this situation is under full and all-round control of the IAEA, and improves the situation in the Middle East on the whole, because it allows for building normal commercial business, partnerships and political relations with all countries in the region.
CHARLIE ROSE: Den popularitetsrating De har I Rusland, tror jeg, kan gøre enhver politiker i verden misundelig. Hvorfor er De så populær?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Der er noget som forener mig og andre borgere i Rusland - kærligheden til moderlandet.
CHARLIE ROSE: Der var et følelsesladet øjeblik under højtideligholdelsen, [Anden Verdenskrig] som følge af de ofre som Rusland havde bargt. Og du var der med et billede af din far og tårer i øjnene.

Det gik hårdt ud over Rusland. Det kan vi naturligvis ikke glemme, og det skal vi heller ikke. Ikke for at anklage nogen, men for at noget sådant ikke skal gentage sig i fremtiden.

VLADIMIR PUTIN: Ja, min familie og mine slægtninge i det hele taget led alvorlige tab under Anden Verdenskrig. Det er rigtigt. I min fars familie var der fem brødre og fire af dem blev dræbt, tror jeg. På min mors side var siturationen meget den samme. Generelt led Rusland meget. Det kan vi naturligvis ikke glemme, og det må vi heller ikke, ikke for at anklage nogen, men for at sikre at noget sådant aldrig sker igen. Faktisk behandler vi veteraner med stor respekt og det omfatter de Amerikanske veteraner. De var
på vores Sejrsparade den 9. maj i år. Vi husker de ofre, som andre allierede nationer har lidt, Storbritannien, Kina. Vi husker det virkelig. Jeg tror at det er vores fælles positive minde. Vores fælles kamp mod nazismen vil stadig være en god basis for at klare de udfordringer vi står over for i dag.


Kommentar: Putins kommentarer ovenfor om veteraner blev klippet. Det passer meget godt i betragtning af USA's rædselsfulde behandling af deres sine veteraner.

Det næste korte spørgsmål blev også klippet.


CHARLIE ROSE: Is that what you would like to rekindle, the sense of partnership with America against common enemies?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Not against common enemies, but in each other's interests.
CHARLIE ROSE: Så vidt vi ved, så er De meget populær, men, tilgiv mig, der er mange mennesker i Rusland, som er meget kritiske over for Dem. Som De ved, siger De, at det er mere autokratisk end demokratisk. De siger at politiske opponenter og journalister er blevet dræbt og sat i fængsel i Rusland. De siger, at Deres magt står uimodsagt. Og de siger, at magt korrumperer, men absolut magt korrumperer absolut. Hvad ville De sige til de mennesker, som er bekymret for klimaet, atmosfæren i Rusland?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Der kan ikke være noget demokrati uden overholdelse af loven. Og alle skal overholde den - det er den mest fundamentale og mest vigtige ting, som vi alle bør huske.

Hvad angår de tragiske hændelser, så som tab af liv, inklusiv journalisters, uheldigvis - det sker i alle lande verden over. Men hvis det sker i Rusland, tager vi hvert muligt skridt for at sikre, at de skyldig findes, identificeres og straffes. Vi vil arbejde med alle problemer på samme måde. Men den mest vigtigste ting er, at vi vil fortsætte med at forbedre vores politiske system, så folk og hver borger vil føle, at de kan påvirke statens og samfundets liv, at de kan påvirke myndighederne, og at myndighederne er deres ansvar bevidst i forhold til folket, som gav deres tillid til myndighedernes repræsentanter under valgkampen.
CHARLIE ROSE: If you as the leader of this country insist that the rule of law be observed, if you insist that justice be done, if you, because of your power, do that, then it could go a long way eliminating that perception.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: A lot can be done, but not everyone immediately succeeds in everything. How long has it taken the democratic process to develop in the United States? Ever since it was founded. So, do you think that, as regards democracy, everything is settled now in America? If this were so, there would be no Ferguson issue, right? There would be no other issues of a similar kind, there would be no police abuse. Our goal is to see all these issues and respond to them timely and properly. The same applies to Russia. We also have a lot of problems.


Kommentar: Også klippet blev Putins bemærkning overfor: "Det samme gælder Rusland. Vi har også mange problemer."


CHARLIE ROSE: The people who killed Nemtsov will be prosecuted to the fullest?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I said it at once that this is a disgraceful chapter of our contemporary history and that the criminals must be found, identified and punished. And despite the fact that the investigation has been underway for a long time, it will eventually be concluded.


Kommentar: De to følgende spørgsmål og svar blev klippet.


CHARLIE ROSE: You know that I admire Russia and the Russian culture very much; its literature, its music. It is a large country, a big country. Many people, including Stalin, have said Russia needs a strong, authoritative figure. They worship what Stalin said was that kind of figure. Was Stalin right?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: No. I don't remember him saying that so I cannot confirm these quotes. Russia, as well as any other country, does not need dictators, but it needs equitable principles of organizing the state and society: just, effective, flexibly responding to changes inside and outside the country - that is what Russia needs.
CHARLIE ROSE: But there is a tradition of strong leadership here.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Look, there is parliamentary democracy in most European countries, there is parliamentary democracy in Japan, there is parliamentary democracy in many countries, but in the United States, for some reason, the State is organized differently, there is quite a stringent presidential republic. Each country has its own particular features, its own traditions that find their reflection today and will find it in future. There are such traditions in Russia but it is not a question of a strong figure, although a strong figure is needed in power, it is a question of what is implied by this term. It is one thing if it is a person with dictatorial tendencies. But if it is a fair leader, who acts within the law and in the interests of a vast majority of society, who acts coherently and is guided by principles, it is a completely different matter.
CHARLIE ROSE: Som De ved er der nogen der kalder Dem Tsar.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Og hvad så? De ved, jeg bliver kaldt forskellige ting. Ved De, hvad De siger i Rusland....
CHARLIE ROSE: Passer denne titel til dem?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Nej den ikke. Ved de hvad de siger i Rusland: "Hårde ord brækker ingen ben". Det er ikke det, ens støttere, venner eller politiske modstander kalder en, der betyder noget. Det, der er vigtigt, er, hvad man tænker, man bør gøre i det lands interesser, som har betroet en posten, som overhoved for den russisk stat.
CHARLIE ROSE: Er der folk i Rusland som er bange for Dem?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I do not think so. I assume most people trust me, if they vote for me in elections. And it is the most important thing. It places great responsibility on me, immense responsibility. I am grateful to the people for that trust, but I surely feel great responsibility for what I do and for the result of my work. Det tror jeg ikke, Jeg går ud fra, at de fleste mennesker har tillid til mig, hvis de stemmer på mig ved valgene. Jeg er folk taknemmelige for denne tillid, og naturligvis føler jer et enormt ansvar for det, jeg udfører.
CHARLIE ROSE: As you know, you are very much talked about in America.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Do they not have anything else to do? (Laughs.)
CHARLIE ROSE: Or maybe they are curious people? Or maybe you are an interesting character, maybe that is what it is? They see you, first of all, as a strong leader who presents himself in a strong way. They know that you were the KGB agent, who retired and got into politics. In St. Petersburg you became deputy mayor, then moved to Moscow. And the interesting thing is that they see these images of you, bare-chested man on horseback, and they say there is a man who carefully cultivates his image of strength. I am asking is this image important to you?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I am sure that, after all, any man in my place should set a positive example for other people. In those areas where he can do so, he must do so. In the 1990s and early 2000s, there was a grave social situation in Russia; our social protection system was destroyed; numerous problems emerged which we have not been able to cope with effectively yet, to get rid of them, in health, sports development. I believe a healthy lifestyle is an extremely important thing which underpins solutions to numerous important problems, including the health of the nation. It is impossible to solve health problems of millions of people with the help of pills. People need to put it into practice, have passion for it; healthy lifestyle, fitness and sports should become fashionable.

That is why I believe it is right when not only me, but also my colleagues - the prime minister, ministers, deputies of the State Duma - when they, like today, for example, participate in two marathons, when they visit football matches, when they themselves take part in sport competitions. That is how, inter alia, millions of people start feeling interest in and love for fitness and sports. I believe it is extremely important.


Kommentar: Kun Putins første og anden sætning ovenfor blev inkluderet. Det følgende spørgsmål og svar blev klippet.


CHARLIE ROSE: I hear you and it is important. But may I suggest that you do like the image that you present bare-chested, on a horseback. The image of a strong leader. That's who you want to be seen as, for your people and for the world?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I want everyone to know that Russia in general and the Russian leadership, it is something effective and properly functioning. That the country itself, its institutions, leaders are represented by healthy, capable people who are ready for cooperation with our partners in every single area: sports, politics, fight against modern threats. I have nothing but a positive feeling about it.


Kommentar: Det følgende blev brudt op i få korte sætninger og svar, og spørgsmålet om Donald Trump blev klippet ud.


CHARLIE ROSE: Yes, people believe that you are a strong leader, because you have a strong central government and you can suggest what will happen if you do not have that. Are you curious about America more than simply another nation that you have to deal with? Because they are curious about you, as I suggested. Are you curious? Are you watching the republican political debates?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: If you ask me whether I watch them on a daily basis - I would say no. But it is interesting for us to know what is happening in the US. It is a major world power, and today it is an economic and military leader - no doubt about it. That is why America has a strong influence on the situation in the world in general. Of course, it is interesting for us to know what is happening there. We closely follow the developments in the US, but if you wonder whether we follow the ups and downs of their political life on a daily basis - I would rather say no than yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: Well, Donald Trump, you know who he is, said he would like to meet you, because, he said, you would get along.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Oh, yes, I have heard about it. We welcome any contacts with the future US president, whoever he or she will be. Any person who gains the trust of the American people may rest assured of our cooperation.
CHARLIE ROSE: Marco Rubio is running for a Republican nomination and he says terrible things about you. This is a political debate, a political campaign, of course, I understand that. But he said you were a gangster, he was attacking you and he was attacking Russia.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: How can I be a gangster, if I worked for the KGB? It is absolutely ridiculous.
CHARLIE ROSE: What do you like most about America?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: America's creative approach to solving the problems the country is faced with, its openness and open-mindedness, which make it possible to unleash the potential of the people. I believe that largely due to these qualities America has made such tremendous strides in its development.


Kommentar: Det næste spørgsmål blev klippet ud, og de følgende udvekslinger om homoseksuelles rettigheder var tilgængeligt online, men ikke inkluderet i den endelige udsendelse.


CHARLIE ROSE: Russia had Sputnik, your country got to space before the United States. Russia has extraordinary astrophysicists. Russia has extraordinary achievements in medicine, in science, and in physics. Do you hope that what you can do is restore Russia's leadership and create the same kind of innovation, that you just admired America for? And will you do that?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: We should not lose what has been created over the previous decades, and provide precisely those conditions that I have mentioned to unlock the potential, the full potential, of our citizens. Our people are very talented, we have a very good basis, as you have mentioned. You said you love Russian culture, which is also a great basis for the inner development.

You have just mentioned Russian scientific achievements. We need to maintain them and create opportunities for people to develop freely and fulfil their potential. I am sure, I am totally convinced, that it will ensure sustainable development of science, high technology, and the entire economy of the country.
CHARLIE ROSE: In America, as you know, the Supreme Court discussed the issue of homosexuality. In America the Supreme Court discussed a constitutional right for same sex marriage. Do you applaud America for that? Do you think it is a good idea to make it a constitutional right for same-sex marriage?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: You know that it is a diverse group of people. For example, some homosexuals oppose adoption of children by these couples, oppose themselves. Are they less democratic than other members of this community, gay-community? No, probably not. This is simply a point of view of some people. The problem of sexual minorities in Russia has been deliberately made controversial in Russia. There is no such problem in Russia.
CHARLES ROSE: Please, explain it to us.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Let me explain. It is well known that homosexuality is a criminal offense in the United States, in four US states. If it is good or bad, we know the decision of the Constitutional Court, but this problem has not been dealt with yet, it is still being addressed by the legislation of the United States. This is not the case in Russia. In the post-Soviet Russia...
CHARLES ROSE: Do you condemn it?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Yes, I do. I think that a person cannot be criminally or otherwise prosecuted, his or her rights cannot be infringed upon the grounds of nationality, ethnicity or sexual orientation in the modern world. It is absolutely unacceptable. And it is not the case in Russia. If I am not mistaken there was Article 120 in the Penal Code of the former RSFSR that prosecuted homosexuality. We have abolished this provision; people aren't prosecuted for it anymore. Homosexuals in Russia live in peace, work, are promoted, receive national awards for their achievements in science, art or any other sphere. Medals are awarded to them, I have awarded them myself.

What was the question? The question concerned the ban on promoting homosexuality among minors. To my mind, there is nothing undemocratic about this legal act. Personally, I think that children should be left alone, they should be given an opportunity to grow up, to become aware of themselves and decide themselves who they are: men or women, if they want to have a traditional or homosexual marriage. I do not see here any infringement on gay rights. I think that some people intentionally speculate about this issue to represent Russia as an enemy. It is one of the political instruments used to attack Russia.
CHARLES ROSE: Who commits those attacks on Russia?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Those who do this. You just look who does this.
CHARLES ROSE: There is as much recognition of gay rights and gay marriages as they have in the US? Is that your position?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: We do not only recognise, but ensure their rights. In Russia all people enjoy equal rights, including homosexuals.


Kommentar: Roses spørgsmål nedenfor blev ikke inkluderet, men erstattet med en stemme optaget efter interviewet, der fjernede referencen til Syrien. Den første del af Putins svar, der refererede til Syrien som en "distraktion" blev også klippet. Desuden den sidste bid, der henviser til de "milliarder af Dollars" der blev brugt på at fjerne Janukovich.


CHARLES ROSE: Ukraine, we have already discussed it. Many people believe that as a result of what happened in Crimea the United States and the West imposed sanctions. And those sanctions have hurt Russia. And that you believe [that by re-emerging and] that by trying to be a positive force around the world and in Syria you might somehow lessen the focus on Ukraine.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: De mener for at aflede opmærksomheden fra de ukrainske problem? At vores handlinger i Syrien har til hensigt at aflede opmærksomheden fra Ukraine?

Nej, det is forkert. Den ukrainske situation er et særskilt stort problem for os. Jeg skal sige Dem hvorfor. Syrien er et andet problem; jeg har allerede fortalt Dem at vi er imod disintegration, terrorister der kommer tilbage til vores land, tilbagevenden af folk til Rusland, som kæmper der for terrorister. Der er en hel række problemer knyttet til det. Hvad Ukraine angår, så er det et specielt problem. Ukraine er det land der er os nærmest. Vi har altid sagt, at Ukraine er vores broderland, og det er sandt. Det er ikke blot et slavisk folk, det er det folk, der er nærmest Rusland; vores sprog ligner hinande, og kulturen, fælles historie, religion osv.

Men her er det, jeg anser for fuldstændigt uacceptabelt for os. At løse spørgsmål, inklusiv de kontroversielle af slagsen, såvel som indenrigspolitiske stridsspørgsmål i de tidligere Sovjetrepublikker gennem såkaldte farverevolutioner gennem statskup og ukonstitutionelle midler til at vælte siddende regeringer. Dette er fuldstændigt uacceptabelt. Vores partnere i de Forenede Stater lægger ikke skjul på den kendsgerning, at de har støttet dem, som var imod Yanukovich. Nogen hævdede at have brugt milliarder af dollars.
CHARLIE ROSE: Tror De at de Forenede Stater havde noget at gøre med at Viktor Janukovitj blev styrtet, da han blev nødt til at flygte til Rusland?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Det ved jeg ganske præcist.
CHARLIE ROSE: Hvordan kan de de være sikker på det?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Vi har tusinder af alle mulige kontakter og forbindelser i Ukraine. Vi ved, hvem der arbejdede, og hvor og hvornår, med de mennesker, der styrtede Janukovitj; hvordan disse mennesker blev støttet, hvor meget de blev betalt, hvor og i hvilke lande de blev oplært, og hvem der var deres instruktører. Vi ved det hele. Og vore amerikanske partnere lægger heller ikke længere skjul på det.

Det er meget simpelt. Vi har tusindvis af kontakter og tusindvis af forbindelser med mennesker som lever i Ukraine. Og vi ved hvem der havde møder og arbejdede sammen med folk, som styrtede Viktor Janukovich, så vel som hvornår og hvor de gjorde det, vi kender den måde støtten blev givet på, vi ved, hvem der betalte dem, vi ved hvor meget de blev betalt, vi ved hvilke områder og lande som var værter for træning, og hvordan det blev gjort, vi ved hvem deres instruktører var. Vi ved det hele. Faktisk så holder vores Amerikanske partnere det ikke hemmeligt. De indrømmer åbent at de gav støttem trænede fol, og brugt en given mængde penge på det. De angiver en stor sum penge: up til 5 milliarder dollars; vi taler her om milliarder af dollars. Det er derfor, det ikke længere er en hemmelighed, ingen prøver at bestride det.


Kommentar: De sætninger der følger" Vi ved det hele" blev klippet og en stemme tilføjet der siger, "Til orientering, har USA's regering nægtet nogen del i fjernelsen af den ukrainske leder."


CHARLIE ROSE: Do you respect the sovereignty of Ukraine?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Certainly. However, we would like other countries to respect the sovereignty of other states, including Ukraine, too. Respecting sovereignty means preventing coups, unconstitutional actions and illegitimate overthrowing of the legitimate government. All these things should be totally prevented.
CHARLIE ROSE: How does the renewal of the legitimate power take place, in your judgment? How will that come about? And what role will Russia play?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: At no time in the past, now or in the future, has or will Russia take any part in actions aimed at overthrowing the legitimate government. I'm talking about something else right now - when someone does this, the outcome is very negative. Libya's state is disintegrated, Iraq's territory is flooded with terrorists, it looks like the scenario will be the same for Syria, and you know what the situation is in Afghanistan. What happened in Ukraine? The coup d'état in Ukraine has led to a civil war, because, yes, let's say, many Ukrainians no longer trusted President Yanukovych. However, they should have legitimately come to the polls and voted for another head of state instead of staging a coup d'état. And after the coup d'état took place, some supported it, some were satisfied with it, while others were not. And those who did not like it were treated from the position of force. And that led to a civil war.


Kommentar: Alt undtagen den første sætning ovenfor blev klippet fra Putins svar. Alt det følgende, indtil den næste kommentar, blev også klippet, på trods af Putins udtrykkelig anmodning om, at det blev inkluderet.


CHARLIE ROSE: I repeat, what are you prepared to do regarding Ukraine?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Let me tell you. If that is your question, then I think that both Russia and other international actors, including those who are more actively engaged in the resolution of the Ukrainian crisis (that is the Federal Republic of Germany and France, the so-called Normandy Quartet, certainly, with close involvement of the United States, and we have intensified our dialogue on this issue), we should all be committed to the full and unconditional implementation of the agreements that were achieved in Minsk. The Minsk Agreements have to be implemented.
CHARLIE ROSE: That is what John Kerry said yesterday after his meeting with the British Foreign Minister. He mentioned Ukraine after Syria. He said: "We have to have a full implementation of the Minsk Agreements". Does it mean that you and John Kerry agree on this issue: to implement the Minsk Agreements?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Yes, we fully agree. Would you now exercise your patience and listen to me for two minutes without interruptions? I ask you not to censor this information. Can you do that? Do you have enough authority for that?
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes, I do.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: The implementation of the Minsk Agreements involves several issues, but I will get to the core points. Nothing matters for a drastic change in Ukraine more than political transformations.

Firstly, the Constitution should be amended as stipulated in the Minsk Agreements. And the most important thing, Minsk Agreements say that it must be done in coordination with Donetsk and Lugansk. It is a matter of principle. Right now Ukraine is in the process of amending its Constitution, the first reading is over, yet no one had discussed a single point with Donetsk and Lugansk, and nobody intends to either. That is the first point.

Secondly, and it is clearly stated in the Minsk Agreements, the law on the special order for local self-government in these regions, which has already been adopted in Ukraine, has to be implemented. The law has been adopted, but its implementation was postponed. It means that the Minsk Agreements have not been implemented.

Thirdly, an amnesty law needs to be adopted. Do you think that it is possible to have a dialogue with the representatives of Lugansk and Donetsk if they all are being prosecuted and subject to criminal proceedings? That is exactly why the Minsk Agreements establish to adopt an amnesty law. However, it has not been adopted.

There are a number of other points. I mean conducting local elections, for instance, the Agreements say clearly to adopt a law on local elections in coordination with Donetsk and Lugansk. The law on local elections was adopted in Ukraine, the representatives of Donetsk and Lugansk forwarded their proposals on this law three times, but no one ever responded, though the Minsk Agreements say clearly: "by agreement with Donetsk and Lugansk." You know, I respect and even like John Kerry, he is an experienced diplomat. He told me once that he opposed Star Wars [the Pentagon's space-based missile program] at some point, and he was right. Perhaps, if it was he who had to decide on the ABM, now we might have had no conflict regarding ballistic missile defense. However, he slants as far as the situation in Ukraine is concerned. The one side, Kiev, says that it has done a lot and implemented the Minsk Agreements, but it is not the case, since these actions should be agreed upon with Donetsk and Lugansk. However, there is no coordination at all.

As to the implementation of the already adopted law on the special order for local self-government in these regions, the Minsk Agreements state that it should be done "within 30 days". Nothing has been done, the implementation has been postponed. That is exactly why we stand for the full and unconditional implementation of the Minsk Agreements by both sides, in strict accordance with the Agreements' language, rather than its biased interpretations.
CHARLIE ROSE: I gave you four minutes and I did not interrupt, did I?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I could see that you tried hard not to interrupt. I am very grateful to you for that.
CHARLIE ROSE: You are right, I enjoyed your speech.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: In fact, I am telling you the truth.
CHARLIE ROSE: Americans are going to see you the way they have never seen you. You are more conversational and expressive. It is good, indeed.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Thank you. In fact, everything that I have said is absolutely true. Do you understand it? The Minsk Agreements will not help to solve the issues if Kiev acts unilaterally all the time, though the Minsk Agreements state "by agreement with Donbass". [There is no coordination.] It is a matter of principle.
CHARLIE ROSE: Do you really think so?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: There is not much to think about, everything is written, the only thing to do is to read it. It is stated "by agreement with Donetsk and Lugansk" - just read the document. I am telling you, there is no coordination there, that's it. It is stipulated: "to introduce a law on the special status within 30 days". But it has not been introduced. The question is: who does not implement the Minsk Agreements?
CHARLIE ROSE: You have mentioned the Secretary of State; he also said that it is important not only to implement the Minsk Agreements but also for separatists to give up the idea of independent elections. John Kerry said that yesterday.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I am familiar with the position of our American friends, and this is what I have to say. I have just said it, but it seems that I have to repeat myself. This is what the Minsk Agreements say about local elections: "To pass a law on local elections by agreement with Donetsk and Lugansk". What happened instead? Kiev passed the law on its own without any kind of discussion with Donetsk and Lugansk whatsoever, and completely disregarded their draft proposal they had sent three times. There was no dialogue at all; Kiev just passed the law without consultations. Moreover, the law adopted by Kiev states that no elections are to be held in Donbass. Now, [given the explicit terms of the Minsk Agreements] what kind of law is that? In fact, they have prompted the representatives of Donetsk and Lugansk to hold elections of their own. That's it. We are ready to discuss these issues with Mr. Kerry, but, first of all, we have to ensure that both sides implement their written commitments, instead of [Kiev] trying to pass its own initiatives off as something good [enough to meet the Minsk criteria].
CHARLIE ROSE: I hear you, but I wanted to repeat this, because Secretary Kerry emphasized separatists' elections. Yes, I really hear you.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: In this case, the Secretary of State Kerry is dodging as a diplomat, but that is fine, this is his job. All diplomats dodge, and he is doing the same.
CHARLIE ROSE: You would never act like that, would you?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I would not do that. I am not a diplomat.
CHARLIE ROSE: Who are you? How do you see yourself?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I am a human being, a citizen of the Russian Federation, a Russian.


Kommentar: Udsendelsens materiale genoptages her.


CHARLIE ROSE:
De sagde også at det værste der sket i det sidste århundrede var sidintegrationen af Sovjetunionen og det sovjettiske emperium. Der er de som ser på Ukraine og Georgien [2008 krigen] og tænker, at I ikke ønsker at genskabe det sovjettiske emperium, men at I bestemt ønsker at genskabe en indflydelsessfære, som I mener Rusland fortjener i kraft af de relationer, der har eksisteret. Hvorfor smiler De?

VLADIMIR PUTIN: (Ler) Jeres spørgsmål gør mig glad. Der er altid nogen der altid nogen, der mistænker Rusland for at have nogle ambitioner, der er altid nogen, som prøver at misfortolke os eller holde os tilbage. Jeg har sagt, at jeg opfatter Sovjetunionens kollaps som en stor tragedie i det 20. århundrede. Ved I hvorfor? Først og fremmest fordi 25 millioner russiske mennesker pludselig befandt sig uden for grænserne af den Russiske Føderation. De plejede at leve i en stat; Sovjetunionen er traditionelt blevet kaldt Rusland, det Sovjettiske Rusland, og det var det "større Rusland". Så faldt Sovjetunionen pludseligt fra hinanden, faktisk, i løbet af en nat, og det viste sig at der i de tidligere Sovjettiske republikker var 25 millioner Russere. De plejede at leve i et land, og pludselig befandt de sig i udlandet. Kan De forestille dem, hvor mange problemer det gav anledning til?

Først var der dagligdagsproblemer, adskillelsen af familier, de økonomiske og sociale problemer. Listen er endeløs. Synes du det er normalt at 25 millioner mennesker, russiske mennesker, pludselig befandt til udenlands? Russerne har vist sig i dag at være den mest opdelte nation i verden. Er det ikke et problem? Det er ikke et problem for Dem, men det er for mig.


Kommentar: Det opfølgende spørgsmål nedenfor blev ikke inkluderet.


CHARLIE ROSE: How do you want to solve this problem?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: We want to, at least, preserve the common humanitarian space within the modern civilized framework, we want to ensure that national boundaries do not prevent people from freely communicating with each other, and we want the joint economy to develop using the advantages that we inherited from the Soviet Union. What are they? They include the common infrastructure, railway transport, road network, power system and finally, I dare say, the great Russian language, which unites all former republics of the Soviet Union and gives us clear competitive advantages in promoting various integration projects in the former Soviet Union area.

You have probably heard that we had established the Customs Union first and then transformed it into the Eurasian Economic Union. When people communicate freely, when labour force, goods, services and funds move freely as well, when there are no state dividing lines and when we have common legal regulation, for example, in the social sphere — all that is good enough, people should feel free.
CHARLIE ROSE: Did you have to use the military force to accomplish that objective?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Of course not.
CHARLIE ROSE: Rusland har en militær tilstedeværelse på grænsen til Ukraine, og nogen hævder, at der har været russiske tropper i selve Ukraine.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Do you have a military presence in Europe?
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I Europa befinder der sig amerikanske taktiske atomvåben; lad os ikke glemme det. Hvis vi holder vore tropper på vores eget territorium på grænsen til en eller anden stat, skal det så være en forbrydelse?

The US tactical nuclear weapons are in Europe, let us not forget this. Does it mean that the US has occupied Germany or that the US never stopped the occupation after World War II and only transformed the occupation troops into the NATO forces? That is one way of seeing it, but we do not say that. And yet, if we keep our troops on our territory but near the border with some state, you see it is a crime?


Kommentar: "Det er én måde at se på det, men det siger vi ikke" blev klippet, hvilket også alle de følgende udvekslinger blev. (Diskussionen om sanktioner blev sendt som et online klip.)


CHARLIE ROSE: I did not say it was a crime.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: All the processes that I mentioned, the natural economic, humanitarian and social integration, do not require any armed forces. We have established the Customs Union and the Eurasian Economic Union not by force, but through a compromise. It was a challenging, complicated, multi-year process based on agreement, compromise and mutually acceptable conditions in the hope of creating for our economies and for our people better competitive advantages in the world markets and in the world as a whole.


Kommentar: Mens det Putin siger her måske ikke lyder som om det beløber sig til meget, få mennesker er klar over just hvor radikalt den opfattelse at arbejde med - og ikke mod - naturen virkelig er for de som har skabt "civilisationen" indtil nu. De ovennænvte er den væsentlige grund til at "Vesten" anser ham for åndsvag.

Lyder ideen at folk bare kommer ud af det med hinanden skør for dig? Det er afgjort banlyst for spykopater i magtfulde positioner...


CHARLIE ROSE: So, why are we talking about this? Tell me about the Baltic states and your intentions towards the Baltic states.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: We would like to build friendly, partnership-based relations with them. Many Russians have been living there since the collapse of the Soviet Union. They are being discriminated there, their rights are being violated. Do you know that many Baltic states have invented something new in the international law? What citizenship-related notions did international law have before? The answer is: a citizen, a foreigner, a stateless person and dual nationals, or people with dual citizenship. The Baltic republics have invented something totally new. Do you know what? They use the word 'non-citizens' for people who have been living for decades in the territory of Baltic states and have been deprived of a number of political rights. They cannot participate in the election campaigns; they have limited political and social rights. Everybody keeps quiet about it, as if this is the way it should be. Of course, this cannot but cause a certain reaction. I assume that our colleagues from both the United States and the European Union will proceed from current humanitarian law and ensure political freedoms and rights of all people, including those who are living in the territory of Baltic states after the disintegration of the Soviet Union. As for economic relations, we have sustainable and highly developed contacts with these countries.

But, you know, there are some things that confuse me (to put it mildly).
CHARLIE ROSE: Confuse you?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: They perplex me and disappoint me. We all say that we need to bring together our views, to pursue economic and political integration.

For example, the Baltic countries (I have already mentioned that since Soviet times we have common power supplies and power systems) were, naturally, a part of the common energy grid of the Soviet Union. What are they doing now? Everyone seems to be talking about the convergence of Russia and the European Union. But what is really happening? Nowadays, there are plans to separate the Baltic states from the common power system of the former Soviet Union and to integrate them into the European system. What does it mean for us in practice? In practice, it means that a number of zones will emerge between several regions of the Russian Federation, where we will have no power transmission lines, since previously we used to have a loop transition through the Baltic countries. And it means that we will have to reform the system, spending billions of dollars, as well as our European partners who will also have to spend billions of dollars to integrate the Baltic countries into their power grid. What for? If we really seek some kind of joint work and integration, not just by words but also by deeds, what is the use of all this? And this is the case in many areas: they do the opposite of what they say.

In my opinion, these all are growth-related problems and I believe that common sense - in this or another area - will prevail in the end. We all are interested in an open development, without any prejudice; this refers particularly and, perhaps, primarily to the Baltic countries, for them it is more important than for Russia. Take, for example, Lithuania. Do you know, what was its population in Soviet times? It was 3.4 million people. It was a small country, a small republic. And what is it now? I have looked though recent statistics; today the population of this country is 1.4 million people. Where are the people? More than half of the citizens have left the country. Can you imagine a situation where more than half of Americans left the territory of the United States? It would be a catastrophe! What does it mean? It means that the broken ties, first of all, in the economy, adversely affect all of us, including Russia. So, I am deeply convinced that we should abandon the phobias of the past, look forward into the future and, while acting on the basis of international law, establish good neighbourly and equal relations.
CHARLIE ROSE: And, of course, we have to lift sanctions.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: If somebody prefers to work by means of sanctions, he is welcome to do so. But sanctions are a temporary measure. Firstly, they contradict international law. Secondly, tell me where this policy of sanctions proved to be effective. The answer is nowhere; and sanctions against such a country as Russia are unlikely to be effective.
CHARLIE ROSE: Since the sanctions were imposed, even your friends are worried about the Russian economy, because of the sanctions first, but also because of declining oil prices. Is that a huge challenge for you? Is that a troubling global economic reality?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: You know, the sanctions, as I said, are illegal actions, destroying the principles of the international global economy, the principles of the WTO and the UN. The sanctions may be imposed only by a decision of the UN Security Council. A unilateral imposition of sanctions is a violation of international law. Well, whatever, let's put aside the legal aspect of the matter. Of course, they do damage, but they are not the main reason for the slowdown in the growth rates of the Russian economy or other problems related to inflation. For us, the main reason is, of course, the decrease in prices in the world markets of our traditional export goods, first, of oil and, consequently, of gas, and some other products. This is the core factor. Sanctions, of course, have a certain impact, but they are not of crucial and fundamental importance to our economy.
CHARLIE ROSE: Will you survive sanctions?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Naturally, beyond any doubts. Sanctions even have a certain advantage. Do you know what is it? The advantage is that previously we used to buy many goods, especially in the area of high technology, with petrodollars. Today, amid the sanctions, we cannot buy or we are afraid that we will be denied access to hi-tech goods, and we had to deploy large-scale programs to develop our own high-tech economy, industry, manufacturing and science. In fact, we would have to do this anyway, but we found it difficult as our own domestic markets were filled with foreign products, and we found it very difficult to support our local manufacturers within the WTO regulations. Now, with the sanctions imposed and our partners having left our market voluntarily, we have an opportunity to develop.
CHARLIE ROSE: There are two more questions. You were President, Prime Minister and once again President. How long do you want to serve and what do you want to be your legacy? This is one question.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Perioden for min service vil afhænge af to omstændigheder. Først og fremmest er der stipuleret regler i forfatningen, og jeg vil helt afgjort ikke overtræde dem. Men jeg er ikke sikker på, om jeg bør drage fuld fordel af disse forfatningsmæssige rettigheder. Det vil afhænge af den specifikke situation i landet og i verden og mine egne følelser omkring det.
CHARLIE ROSE: Og hvad ønsker du, at at dit minde skal være?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Rusland bør være en effektiv og konkurrencedygtig stat, med en bæredygtig økonomi, et udviklet social og politisk system og flexibel overfor ændringer i både ind og udland.
CHARLIE ROSE: Bør det spille den vigtigste rolle i verden?
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Som jeg sagde, så skal det være konkurrencedygtigt, være i stand til at beskytte sine egne interesser og påvirke de processer, som er vigtige for det.
CHARLIE ROSE: Mange siger, de er almægtig, og de tror, De kan få alt, hvad De ønsker dem. Hvad ønsker De dem? Fortæl Amerika, fortæl verden hvad Vladimir Putin ønsker sig.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Jeg ønsker at Rusland ska blive på den måde som jeg lige har beskrevet det. Det er mit største ønske, jeg vil at folk her er lykkelige, og jeg ønkser at vores partnere rundt om i verden søger at udvikle relationer med Rusland. want Russia to be the way I just described it.
CHARLIE ROSE: Tak, mange tak, det var en fornøjelse.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: Tak.